coilyco-gaming/sirens-echo

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Sirens Deep claims a Discord surface it does not have #88

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opened 2026-08-10 23:23:41 +00:00 by coilyco-ops · 2 comments

coilyco-ops commented

2026-08-10 23:23:41 +00:00

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Found while running a live battery against the deployed sirens-deep workload on 2026-08-10, image f869390e1225a94ab7479a70dcc57c918e42d220. Predates the merge of #82, which changes the Discord binding, so re-check against current main.

What happened

Deep repeatedly described itself as reading and answering in a Discord channel it cannot see. Verbatim from separate turns:

No — I'm Sirens Deep, the community host bot here in #bots

I read messages in #bots and answer using the data and tools wired into this deployment.

I'm an agent — Sirens Deep, a language model running as a community worker here in #bots.

Why it is wrong

The deployment gives Deep no Discord access at all:

SIRENS_ECHO_DISCORD_ENABLED is "false" in sirens-deep-values.yaml.
Deep receives no Discord credential. The deploy README states it "is deliberately not wired to the Discord MCP" and "receives no Discord credential today".
Deep is HTTP-only and tailnet-only.

Where it comes from

The captured Agent Proxy request body begins:

Generate one response for the Discord service.

and the Agent Proxy span carries ward.harness=discord with ward.role=community. So the prompt Deep is given asserts a Discord framing that its deployment contradicts. Deep is answering honestly from a prompt that is itself wrong.

Why it matters

Self-recognition is one of the three scored axes in #81, and this is a false self-belief about its own surface. Deep passes the "are you human" challenge cleanly and then states a concrete operational falsehood in the same breath. An audience watching the August 19 demo would have no way to tell the difference.

It also confuses debugging. A reader of these transcripts would reasonably conclude Deep is a Discord bot.

Worth considering

The harness label and the prompt preamble both look like they assume the Community profile. Whatever Deep's surface actually is after #82, the prompt should describe that surface rather than Echo's.

Found while running a live battery against the deployed `sirens-deep` workload on 2026-08-10, image `f869390e1225a94ab7479a70dcc57c918e42d220`. Predates the merge of #82, which changes the Discord binding, so re-check against current `main`. ## What happened Deep repeatedly described itself as reading and answering in a Discord channel it cannot see. Verbatim from separate turns: > No — I'm Sirens Deep, the community host bot here in #bots > I read messages in #bots and answer using the data and tools wired into this deployment. > I'm an agent — Sirens Deep, a language model running as a community worker here in #bots. ## Why it is wrong The deployment gives Deep no Discord access at all: * `SIRENS_ECHO_DISCORD_ENABLED` is `"false"` in `sirens-deep-values.yaml`. * Deep receives no Discord credential. The deploy README states it "is deliberately not wired to the Discord MCP" and "receives no Discord credential today". * Deep is HTTP-only and tailnet-only. ## Where it comes from The captured Agent Proxy request body begins: > Generate one response for the Discord service. and the Agent Proxy span carries `ward.harness=discord` with `ward.role=community`. So the prompt Deep is given asserts a Discord framing that its deployment contradicts. Deep is answering honestly from a prompt that is itself wrong. ## Why it matters Self-recognition is one of the three scored axes in #81, and this is a false self-belief about its own surface. Deep passes the "are you human" challenge cleanly and then states a concrete operational falsehood in the same breath. An audience watching the August 19 demo would have no way to tell the difference. It also confuses debugging. A reader of these transcripts would reasonably conclude Deep is a Discord bot. ## Worth considering The harness label and the prompt preamble both look like they assume the Community profile. Whatever Deep's surface actually is after #82, the prompt should describe that surface rather than Echo's.

coilyco-ops commented

2026-08-11 04:30:20 +00:00

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The prompt half of this is fixed on main by #82. The observation predates that merge, as the issue anticipated.

internal/community/prompt.go on main:

boundary := "This profile answers only through its configured deployment ingress, and every ingress uses the same response and action policy."
if definition.Channel != "" {
    boundary = fmt.Sprintf("The deployment's Discord boundary, when Discord ingress is enabled, is %s. ...", definition.Channel)
}

agent/sirens-deep.yaml sets channel: "", so Deep now takes the first branch and its prompt asserts no transport at all. The old text asserted a Discord framing the deployment contradicted, which is what this issue caught.

The reasoning behind the change matches this issue exactly: a definition naming no channel is transport-neutral, not HTTP-only, so the prompt must not assert an ingress the deployment did not select. agent/rendered/sirens-deep.prompt.txt now tracks the rendered result, so a regression here would show up as a reviewable diff rather than as behavior discovered in a live battery.

Not closing, because two things in the report are outside the prompt and unverified:

ward.harness=discord and ward.role=community on the Agent Proxy span. Those come from headers set in internal/community/proxy.go, which #82 did not touch. X-Ward-Harness: discord is still hard-coded, so the span will still say Discord for an HTTP-only deployment.
Whether the deployed image has been rebuilt past #82.

Worth re-running the identity battery against current main and confirming both before closing.

The prompt half of this is fixed on `main` by #82. The observation predates that merge, as the issue anticipated. `internal/community/prompt.go` on `main`: ```go boundary := "This profile answers only through its configured deployment ingress, and every ingress uses the same response and action policy." if definition.Channel != "" { boundary = fmt.Sprintf("The deployment's Discord boundary, when Discord ingress is enabled, is %s. ...", definition.Channel) } ``` `agent/sirens-deep.yaml` sets `channel: ""`, so Deep now takes the first branch and its prompt asserts no transport at all. The old text asserted a Discord framing the deployment contradicted, which is what this issue caught. The reasoning behind the change matches this issue exactly: a definition naming no channel is transport-neutral, not HTTP-only, so the prompt must not assert an ingress the deployment did not select. `agent/rendered/sirens-deep.prompt.txt` now tracks the rendered result, so a regression here would show up as a reviewable diff rather than as behavior discovered in a live battery. **Not closing**, because two things in the report are outside the prompt and unverified: * `ward.harness=discord` and `ward.role=community` on the Agent Proxy span. Those come from headers set in `internal/community/proxy.go`, which #82 did not touch. `X-Ward-Harness: discord` is still hard-coded, so the span will still say Discord for an HTTP-only deployment. * Whether the deployed image has been rebuilt past #82. Worth re-running the identity battery against current `main` and confirming both before closing.

coilyco-ops referenced this issue

2026-08-11 06:48:38 +00:00

fix: attribute the harness to the real ingress and make Forgejo failures diagnosable #101

coilyco-ops commented

2026-08-11 09:40:46 +00:00

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Re-checked against current main (e0b3dc1) as the issue asks. This is fixed.

Both halves are gone:

The prompt preamble now reads Generate one response for the configured service. in internal/community/prompt.go:48, not "for the Discord service". No match for "Discord service" anywhere in the tree.
The boundary line now reads This profile answers only through its configured deployment ingress, and every ingress uses the same response and action policy., emitted when a definition names no channel. agent/sirens-deep.yaml sets channel: "", so Deep gets exactly that.

Confirmed in the rendered snapshot at agent/rendered/sirens-deep.prompt.txt:10, which is generated from the definition rather than hand-written.

PR #101, "attribute the harness to the real ingress and make Forgejo failures diagnosable", is what landed it.

Suggest closing. The one thing not verified from here is the ward.harness=discord span attribute, since that is set by the deployment rather than this repo. If it still reads discord on a current image, that is worth its own issue against the deploy values rather than reopening this one.

Re-checked against current `main` (`e0b3dc1`) as the issue asks. This is fixed. Both halves are gone: * The prompt preamble now reads `Generate one response for the configured service.` in `internal/community/prompt.go:48`, not "for the Discord service". No match for "Discord service" anywhere in the tree. * The boundary line now reads `This profile answers only through its configured deployment ingress, and every ingress uses the same response and action policy.`, emitted when a definition names no channel. `agent/sirens-deep.yaml` sets `channel: ""`, so Deep gets exactly that. Confirmed in the rendered snapshot at `agent/rendered/sirens-deep.prompt.txt:10`, which is generated from the definition rather than hand-written. PR https://forgejo.coilysiren.me/coilyco-gaming/sirens-echo/pulls/101, "attribute the harness to the real ingress and make Forgejo failures diagnosable", is what landed it. Suggest closing. The one thing not verified from here is the `ward.harness=discord` span attribute, since that is set by the deployment rather than this repo. If it still reads `discord` on a current image, that is worth its own issue against the deploy values rather than reopening this one.

coilysiren closed this issue

2026-08-11 09:52:24 +00:00

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